The Scuba Doctor dive maps

1 month 1 week ago #303711 by lloyd_borrett
lloyd_borrett created the topic: The Scuba Doctor dive maps
G'day,

Thought I might start a topic specifically for The Scuba Doctor dive maps database, instead of hijacking the Wreck Locations topic.
See https://www.scubadoctor.com.au/melbourne-dive-sites.htm

Added two marks the other day.
The Ledges - source Alan Beckhurst
Chimney Rock - source Black Rock

Hopefully they are okay. Could someone please confirm the Chimney Rock one?
See https://www.scubadoctor.com.au/melbourne-reef-dives.htm#dive-Chimney-Rock
Any more information about the dive site would be helpful.

Before I work on adding any more dive sites I'm going to focus on making some changes to the database application I use to manage the information and display it.

Things to do to the database application include:

Being able to easily add, edit, and update the URL of the page where more information about the dive site can be found. Then make sure I have a URL for every dive site.

Add a date_updated column to the database. Currently there is a date_add column, but the date gets changed when the marker information is updated. I want to be able to show both the date added, and the date updated. Then reset the date_add columns to an appropriate date.

Have a source column in the database. Currently the source information is put into the short description. I want to move it out and be able to maintain the information easier.

Taking the GPS location in Degrees and Decimal Minutes out of the short description. Instead generate that information from the Decimal Degrees location stored in the database. Generate and show the Degrees and Decimal Minutes version in the pop-up box displayed when users click on a site marker when looking at a map.

Include a 'Read more' link to the extra information about a dive site in the pop-up box displayed when users click on a site marker when looking at a map.

Be able to add, edit and update the marker location in Decimal Degrees or Degrees and Decimal Minutes. Currently only D.D is accepted. I'm usually given marks in D M.M and have to convert them myself. Errors creep in. Being able to properly handle both formats will make things easier and improve accuracy.

I've been trying to categorise the dive sites and display the categories as icons. The set I'm using so far is:
Advanced Open Water Rated, Crayfish Dive Site, Deep Rated, Drift Dive Site, Ideal For Snorkelling, Inside Port Phillip Bay, Marine Park - No Fishing, Night Dive Site, Open Water Rated, Outside Port Phillip Bay, Reef Dive Site, Scallops Dive Site, Subject to Shipping, Slack Water, Technical Rated, Wreck Dive Site. I've been adding the details as HTML in the long description. To better manage and display them, the details need to be stored in the database differently.

I'm still thinking about better ways to handle the min, average and/or max depth for dive sites. Take a site like the Canberra which is 8m to 32m. But it can be a dive site for Open Water, Advanced Open Water, Wreck and Tech rated divers depending on how the dive is planned.

Then the real work begins.

For wreck dive sites I've added links to the Heritage Council Victoria page and MAAV page for each shipwreck that has them. Now I want to finish adding links to the Australian National Shipwreck Database for each shipwreck.

If wrecks or dive sites have an entry in Wikipedia, then I want to have links to them. I have some, but there are bound to be more.

Michael Mallis has provided me with more information about a number of shore dives. So the information needs to be added.

The Australian National Shipwreck Database has entries with crude location marks for many shipwrecks and plane wrecks I've not seen anywhere else. I'm thinking of adding a new dive type, e.g. Exploration Required, and add them to the database. Then these locations become a challenge for wreck hunters.

Improve the information available to make it easier to locate dive sites. For example, how a wreck lies on the bottom and the best direction to approach it from. Maybe add the equivalent of Packo's GPS plotting sheets to the long description, where available. Encourage people to get out there and create them.

Seek out and get permission to use more videos and images of dive sites.

Encourage people to create new, or provide existing, dive site drawings, or the modern equivalent.

Seek out and get the locations for more dive sites. It would be great to improve what we have for other areas in Victoria, e.g. Wilsons Prom.

Any help with any of the above would be most appreciated.

Best regards, Lloyd Borrett.

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1 month 1 week ago #303713 by packo
packo replied the topic: The Scuba Doctor dive maps
Hello Lloyd,

I put some feedback on some locations on the other "wreck locations" thread because my post refers to earlier stuff in that topic.

A great idea to start a separate "The Scuba Doctor dive maps" topic as its really a VIC only thing, and it could develop into a good public area where Vic GPS marks and discussed and traded. It also keeps us all up to date on new developments in your dive site information system. I'm sure Webby will happily tolerate this as while it is a tiny bit "promo", we all do see the more philanthropic picture, and you do deserve some reward for all the hard work!

Regarding the "Chimney Rock" coords mentioned in your post above. I haven't dived it yet, but did scrape this off the web some time ago:-


The red additions are my annotations but the text discusses two close by marks "132" and "CHIMM". The "132" matches your numbers. The text is a little ambiguous as to which is the "bad" one:-
view a) The "CHIMM" mark was the one provided to these guys but then they found and marked "132" as the best prospect.
view b) All the blue "motoring around" tracks might suggests all the fruitless searching was done around "132" but the real gold was at "CHIMM"

Hardly the confirmation you asked for but does show your numbers are either right, or fairly close by. The two marks are 26m apart. Maybe instead of all this armchair musing, someone who actually knows might help out!

Your points in the post above outline some excellent development directions including:-

"Add a date_updated column to the database. Currently there is a date_add column, but the date gets changed when the marker information is updated. I want to be able to show both the date added, and the date updated. Then reset the date_add columns to an appropriate date."

Yes I was disappointed when the newly added "update date" feature seemed to overwrite any original "marks changed date". It is important to retain that history. I hope none of this info has been lost.

"Taking the GPS location in Degrees and Decimal Minutes out of the short description. Instead generate that information from the Decimal Degrees location stored in the database. Generate and show the Degrees and Decimal Minutes version in the pop-up box displayed when users click on a site marker when looking at a map."[i/]

I'm a big fan of computerised coordinate conversions as I am sure this will greatly reduce the error rate. I hope the user will still be able to see both (or all three) formats in the Dive-Site listing pages.

I worry a little that if you get too much of a d.ddddd view of things, you will be less inclined to spot "sillies". I believe that the d mm.mmm format gives most people a better sense of "where things are" and mark errors, typos, and the like are more easily recognised. I think most of us work in that format and it is the best "natural fit".

I guess you've gone too far down the google track with a database in d.ddddd but in hindsight having the DB in d mm.mmm and then auto converting to d.ddddd for mapping might have been a better choice.

"Be able to add, edit and update the marker location in Decimal Degrees or Degrees and Decimal Minutes. Currently only D.D is accepted. I'm usually given marks in D M.M and have to convert them myself. Errors creep in. Being able to properly handle both formats will make things easier and improve accuracy."

Yes a great facility. Hopefully might overcome some of my fears above and you might then develop a more d mm.mmm view of things.

"I've been trying to categorise the dive sites . . .

The list of sites is getting so enormous that I can see chopping it up into "sub lists" as you have done makes sense. However breaking it up into "diving type" shouldn't be the only criterion. From a pragmatic point of view, many would find a handy list category to be:-
"all dive sites within 15km of the midpoint between the Sorrento & Queenscliff boat ramps and less than 45m deep (or whatever you think a suitable 21% O2 OC limit is) list".

"Then the real work begins."

Onward and upwards!

In between drowning yourself under all this software development workload and the normal dive shop work, don't forget to take a peek at the live Sorrento shoreline webcam. Yesterday it was showing these scenes:-
What more can I say?

cheers,
packo

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1 month 1 week ago #303715 by AB
AB replied the topic: The Scuba Doctor dive maps
Chimney Rock is a weird rock full of holes with a sort of chimney hole in the top and an old craypot under it. It is part of a reef full of similar Swiss cheese rocks. My mark is 38 18.089 144 30.198 but it marks the reef, not the chimney in particular. I try not to shot on the reef as there is a good chance the shot will go down into the Swiss cheese and get stuck and half the fun is finding the chimney!

Alan

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1 month 1 week ago #303716 by lloyd_borrett
lloyd_borrett replied the topic: The Scuba Doctor dive maps

packo wrote: Regarding the "Chimney Rock" coords mentioned in your post above. I haven't dived it yet, but did scrape this off the web some time ago:-


That's where I got the mark from. But I now plan to update it with the details provided by Alan. It's possible the reason BRUDG had trouble finding the place was that they had a mark like AB's one, but not the information on how to use it. It's this sort of extra information that makes what AB has provided so valuable.

packo wrote: "Add a date_updated column to the database. Currently there is a date_add column, but the date gets changed when the marker information is updated. I want to be able to show both the date added, and the date updated. Then reset the date_add columns to an appropriate date."

Yes I was disappointed when the newly added "update date" feature seemed to overwrite any original "marks changed date". It is important to retain that history. I hope none of this info has been lost.


It probably has been lost. And that's why I want to fix this. Thought I had it earlier today, but we still need to get some MySQL date handling stuff right.

packo wrote: I'm a big fan of computerised coordinate conversions as I am sure this will greatly reduce the error rate. I hope the user will still be able to see both (or all three) formats in the Dive-Site listing pages.


It will be stored as D.D for efficiency mapping it. But it will still be displayed in all three formats in the site listings. It's just that I will be able to input stuff in D.D or D M.M. Then I want the D M.M to be generated out of the database for the pop-up boxes in the maps, rather than it being in a short description text field I have to manually update.

packo wrote: "all dive sites within 15km of the midpoint between the Sorrento & Queenscliff boat ramps and less than 45m deep (or whatever you think a suitable 21% O2 OC limit is) list".


I'm not planning to ever implement stuff like that. That's way beyond what I need to have for people to be able to find out information about dive sites. But you could always do the positioning part of that sort of thing in a crude way when looking at the dive map of the sites. Plus now, using the KML file, you can get the information into other systems, e.g. Google Earth, and do that sort of thing there. In time I'll look into how to transfer more information than the site position into the KML file.

I've added a 'source' field to the database and populated it from information given in the short description. Next step will be to make it easy to edit that field and then remove the information from the short description. I plan to add something like (verified) or (unverified) where appropriate to the source field.

I used 50 metres in the nearest neighbours code to detect possible duplicate sites. But I can change it to whatever I like at will. I'm very mindful that there can be valid reasons for having sites very close to each other, for example like Packo's example at Castle Rock.

The current work in progress is to finish implementing the source field. To fix the date_add and date_modified issue.

Then change the contents of the pop-up box shown on the maps page.

Then work on putting legends in the database and using them from there.

Then I want to get back to improving the information, pictures and video for dive sites, getting people to help verify sites, and adding new ones.

Best regards, Lloyd Borrett.

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1 month 6 days ago #303723 by AB
AB replied the topic: The Scuba Doctor dive maps
Looks good lloyd but the nearest site to Castle Rock is Golden Arch at 38 17.840. 144 35.605. Mary and I actually swam to it from Castle rock to check out a sounding. Golden Arch isn't listed but after we found it VSAG dived it constantly for a while. The mark is on the eastern side of the reef, pretty close to an old craypot, turn right and follow reef like Castle Rock to a 10 metre long arch with yellow zoanthids underneath. Go through the arch and explore the reef scattered on the west side which is home to cuttles and a family of Blue Groper. Almost certain to see White Barred Boxfish there as well. The site is also known to fishing charters as a good spot for Kingies, and we have seen them there often. Here is a video. vimeo.com/158790298

Alan

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1 month 6 days ago #303725 by lloyd_borrett
lloyd_borrett replied the topic: The Scuba Doctor dive maps
Thanks AB. I'll add that dive site.

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1 month 6 days ago #303726 by AB
AB replied the topic: The Scuba Doctor dive maps
Better still, go dive it!

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1 month 6 days ago #303728 by lloyd_borrett
lloyd_borrett replied the topic: The Scuba Doctor dive maps
G'day,

I've made some progress. The dates added and last updated are now working and being shown. Maybe it would now be useful to have a page where the last 10 or 20 sites added are shown. Interested?

I've rearranged how the core information is shown on for each site and on the GPS Marks page.

I can now input and edit marks using both decimal degrees (DD) and degrees and decimal minutes (DDM). Yippee!

The source information is now being stored in a more usable way in the database.

I've now added Golden Arch (Cuttle Arch) using the info from AB. See https://www.scubadoctor.com.au/melbourne-reef-dives.htm#dive-Golden-Arch . Thanks AB.

My system still puts Deep Pinnacles as the closest site to Castle Rock - 250 m, bearing 287°, WNW

Deep Pinnacles is also the closest site to Golden Arch - 137 m, bearing 95°, E.

Best regards, Lloyd Borrett.


P.S.
Plan is to now look at improving the information in the popup boxes when you click on a marker when viewing the maps.
And how to put more information about a site into the KML file.

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1 month 6 days ago - 1 month 6 days ago #303729 by packo
packo replied the topic: The Scuba Doctor dive maps
Hello,

AB wrote:
" . . . but the nearest site to Castle Rock is Golden Arch at 38 17.840. 144 35.605. Mary and I actually swam to it from Castle rock to check out a sounding."

Might pay to double check these Golden Arch coords, or check with Mary's recollection. I put the "swim" at 375m (DPV?).

Lloyd, I hope you've also noted down that I still reckon the Lonsdale Wall coords are way off, and that there also seemed some reasons to doubt the coords of "The Pinnacles" off Cape Woolamai on Phillip Island. (ref:- previous packo posts in old "wreck locations" thread.)

All the new improvements are good news.

cheers,
packo
Last Edit: 1 month 6 days ago by packo.

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1 month 6 days ago - 1 month 6 days ago #303730 by lloyd_borrett
lloyd_borrett replied the topic: The Scuba Doctor dive maps
G'day,

The changes to the popup box when looking at the dive maps are done. Now there are just some 300 markers to update by removing the redundant information from the short description.

So now nearly all of the changes to the system proposed in the 1st post of this topic have been done. Hoping to have the legends part done later this week.

Best regards, Lloyd Borrett.

P.S. I'm starting to actually like what can now be done with this system. It's now a LOT more useful than the early version. Such is evolution.
Last Edit: 1 month 6 days ago by lloyd_borrett.

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1 month 5 days ago - 1 month 5 days ago #303733 by AB
AB replied the topic: The Scuba Doctor dive maps
Can't check Mary's recollection as she is somewhere off the Falkland Islands and out of internet coverage! Pity, as she loves to tell me I've stuffed up! My recollection was wrong, Golden Arch is close to another divesite we call the Bommies, not Castle Rock! (Which we had named Surf Club Reef in the mid '80's as it was a cray spot off the lonnie Surf Club) The co ords are correct, and we did swim to it on a compass bearing from the Bommies (another site not listed, we have lots of sites others don't know about!)

Alan

Last Edit: 1 month 5 days ago by AB.

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1 month 5 days ago #303734 by lloyd_borrett
lloyd_borrett replied the topic: The Scuba Doctor dive maps

AB wrote: we have lots of sites others don't know about!)


Feel free to pass them on AB.

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1 month 5 days ago #303735 by lloyd_borrett
lloyd_borrett replied the topic: The Scuba Doctor dive maps
G'day,

The lat and long in both DDM and DD formats are now going into the KML file.

Plus the Source information and a 'Read More' link are there as well, if we have them.

This makes the KML file a lot more useful, especially when looking at it in Google Earth.

I've thought about putting the dive type, access type and short description into the KML file as well, but I think that might make it a bit klunky.

Best regards, Lloyd Borrett.

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1 month 5 days ago #303736 by lloyd_borrett
lloyd_borrett replied the topic: The Scuba Doctor dive maps
What mapping software are you using to maps your marks and get that screen shot AB?

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1 month 5 days ago #303738 by AB
AB replied the topic: The Scuba Doctor dive maps
Google Earth

Alan

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1 month 4 days ago - 1 month 4 days ago #303740 by lloyd_borrett
lloyd_borrett replied the topic: The Scuba Doctor dive maps
G'day,

310 manual edits later, I've finally finished removing the redundant location DDM coordinates, datum and source information from the short descriptions.

In the back end, I've made changes so that the system reminds me about any missing long descriptions, source attributions or urls as I work through the list.

I've also updated the KML file to have the the dive type and access type information, plus have the icons used on the website dive maps for each dive type.

Now I'm working on adding, enhancing or updating the long descriptions for plenty of dive sites. If you have any contributions you could make towards this, they would be most gratefully received.

Thinking of adding a web page to do conversions between DD, DDM and DMDS coordinate formats.

I've found some sites I could add, but their marks are using AUS66 for the datum. Haven't found a useful tool to convert AUS66 to WGS84. Not keen to have to write one. Might have to fire up my GPS unit and use that to do the conversions.

Best regards, Lloyd Borrett.
Last Edit: 1 month 4 days ago by lloyd_borrett.

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1 month 3 days ago #303744 by lloyd_borrett
lloyd_borrett replied the topic: The Scuba Doctor dive maps
G'day,

I've been adding some dive sites, plus updating the information for a few shore dive sites using details provided by Michael Mallis. More shore dive updates still to do.

I've also created a page to show the 10 most recent Melbourne dive sites added, see
https://www.scubadoctor.com.au/recent-dive-sites.htm

Best regards, Lloyd Borrett.

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1 month 2 days ago #303746 by lloyd_borrett
lloyd_borrett replied the topic: The Scuba Doctor dive maps
G'day,

Just restored access to the dive information sheets from the Maritime Archaeolgy Unit of Victoria Archaelogical Survey, where we have them. They used to be part of the various wreck dive site descriptions, but at some point most went missing.

Have also made some changes to the KML file to make it more standards compliant. Its now a fully valid KML 2.2 feed. Not that this means much to most of you, but it makes me feel better. :-)

Best regards, Lloyd Borrett.

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4 weeks 11 hours ago #303754 by lloyd_borrett
lloyd_borrett replied the topic: The Scuba Doctor dive maps
G'day,

The code to have legends being managed and stored in the database and using them from there is done.

Some sites have been updated to use this method. Plenty more still to update.

So hopefully all of the changes I felt were needed to the database and code are now done. My focus can now stay on updating, enhancing or adding information and dive sites.

Best regards, Lloyd Borrett.

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3 weeks 5 days ago - 3 weeks 5 days ago #303755 by lloyd_borrett
lloyd_borrett replied the topic: The Scuba Doctor dive maps
G'day,

Quite a few of the dive sites lie within the boundaries of the six areas that make up the Port Phillip Heads Marine National Park.

See http://parkweb.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/693263/Map-Port-Phillip-Heads-MNP.pdf

Would be nice if I could flag those sites as such.

I guess it could be done by importing the KML file into Google Earth. Then somehow adding the various park boundaries into Google Earth, and reading off which sites are within the boundaries. Then I could work through the list and update the site information.

Update: Maybe this file is all we need.
https://services.land.vic.gov.au/datavic/plm25_parks.kml

Anyone interested in giving that a go?
Update: It's done! Simpler than I thought it would be. So even I could handle it.

Best regards, Lloyd Borrett.
Last Edit: 3 weeks 5 days ago by lloyd_borrett.

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3 weeks 3 days ago - 3 weeks 3 days ago #303761 by lloyd_borrett
lloyd_borrett replied the topic: The Scuba Doctor dive maps
G'day,

On Friday (Australia Day) I came up with the MySQL statement to get the sites of a particular legend type. Then I created a new page to show the sites flagged as 'Ideal for Snorkelling'. See https://www.scubadoctor.com.au/melbourne-snorkelling-sites.htm

On Saturday I went around Port Phillip, down the Back Beaches, and into Westernport adding or updating the site and legend details for shore dives.

Now the snorkelling community can benefit from the information as well.

Using this same technique, I could now list scallop and/or cray dive sites as well. But right now there aren't enough of them for it to be very useful.

Best regards, Lloyd Borrett.
Last Edit: 3 weeks 3 days ago by lloyd_borrett.

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